とするとIf it were the case that, Assuming that...

最近の返信 (合計20件)

• 

  mrnoone

  English translation:
  if it were the case that
  assuming that…

  Structure:
  Verb + としたら/とすれば/とすると
  いadj + としたら/とすれば/とすると
  なadj + (だ) + としたら/とすれば/とすると
  Noun + (だ) + としたら/とすれば/とすると

  Explanation:
  [if…assume that・hypothetical]

  View on Bunpro

• 

  funkyman50

  What does the とすると (and other する forms) add to the meaning versus potential forms of verbs or だったら for nouns?

  From Tobira: もしタイムマシーンがあるとしたら、… vs もしタイムマシーンがあれば

• 

  testing

  Why is the past used in「もし勉強しなかったとしたら、明日のテストは悲惨なことになるかなぁ？」?

  I assumed it was something like “Assuming you didn’t study (up until now), …”, but the translation is “If I don’t study, I wonder if it would mean that tomorrow’s test would be a disaster?”, which doesn’t seem to reflect the past.

• 

  Daru

  It’s because the hypothetical is talking about the future where you didn’t study. The hypothetical place in time is after the fact, hence why it’s in past.

  Hope this helps!

• 

  Myria

  留学りゅうがくに行いくとすると、論文ろんぶんが必要ひつよう。

  Any reason why となると can’t work here? Some sources even seem to cover them as (roughly) the same thing.
  .〜としたら・とすれば・とすると・となったら・となれば・となると | ちよさんぽ

• 

  Daru

  Because it’s you who’s deciding to go to school, it’s not being decided against your will or anything like that!

• 

  Scorzophyc

  The sentence
  「今日中に結論が出ない____、明日の発表に間に合いませんよ」
  accepts とすれば but not ようでは.

  ようでは is only for negative outcomes and “you won’t make it in time for tomorrow’s presentation” in the second half of that sentence certainly seems like a negative outcome. If anyone could shed some light on why these two grammar points are different in this specific case or just in general, I would be grateful よろしくね～.

• 

  wct

  I’m trying to learn the nuance distinctions between various forms of hypotheticals, and this grammar point touches precisely on a few forms of this topic. However, there seems to be some kind of confusion in the text of the grammar point. It currently says:

  The text beneath the form-examples seems to indicate that the forms all basically mean the same thing, but with some nuance perhaps. They all are supposed to basically mean “assuming that A is true, then (possibly?) B

• 

  Asher

  Good questions and observations. I believe that the primary cause of confusion here is there being a disconnect between how we (at Bunpro) want to teach と, and the way it is taught in a broader sense.

  と is a particle that compartmentalizes things, and tells the reader/listener that all the information about (A) is complete, which is why we call it a result/resultant emphasizer. This is in contrast to に, which is a target emphasizer.

  Here’s a few examples. Note this is not typically how textbooks teach と, so you’re absolutely welcome to agree or disagree.

  と as quotation - The previous info is something grouped as a whole, with nothing omitted.
  と as if - The previous info is complete, leaving no room for ‘maybe’.
  と as determiner (like となる) - Something will become (A), it cannot be changed.
  として - The thing about (A) is innate, again it cannot be changed.

  In all cases, と says (A) is the way it is. It’s the result. Anything after that will obey the...

• 

  wct

  Thank you! It’s a great starting point for me to begin digesting the situation. I will reply more completely when I have the time to think it through.

• 

  Asher

  I’m gonna change this translation. Sorry for the super late reply, I noticed this post in passing! With the sentence もし勉強しなかった としたら、明日のテストは悲惨なことになるかなぁ？, it’s expressing that the person did actually study, but they are wondering what would happen if they hadn’t. A much better translation is ‘If I hadn’t studied, I wonder if tomorrow’s test would have been a disaster’. Hope this helps!

• 

  wct

  “… would have been a disaster?” ? ‘Would have been’ usually means something happening in the past. It it’s tomorrow’s test, it hasn’t happened yet. Maybe “… would be a disaster?”

  As in, ‘If I hadn’t studied, I wonder if tomorrow’s test would de a disaster?’

  Or, possibly, “If I hadn’t studied, tomorrow’s test would be a disaster!”, more like a “Whew! That was a close call! Glad I studied, cuz now I realize I knew nothing!”

  [Now that I think of it, “If I hadn’t studied, tomorrow’s test would have been be a disaster!” also sounds natural… ]

• 

  Asher

  Depends on how determined the speaker is about the result that they’re imagining. Japanese, like English, puts the future in the past quite a lot.

  If Obama hadn’t won the election, I wonder if John McCain would have given the presidential address tomorrow.

  If we didn’t live in Nepal, I wonder if we would have gotten married on the beach next month.

  It’s just the speaker projecting themselves onto a future that they’ve already determined isn’t possible for whatever reason.

• 

  wct

  Okay, I think that makes sense now … as I’m reading it today. … But … I wonder if it would still have made sense, even if I had read it tomorrow? Hmm… I think it would have!

  Well, I guess I will have certainly found out by the day after tomorrow!

  But… by that point … it would have already hav...

• 

  Asher

  TLDR: Language is weird

• 

  nekoyama

  What has helped me the most with learning Japanese is transcending our dimension and standing above the concepts of space and time.

• 

  wct

  Hmmm, or is it “will have”, for the past in the future??? Will we ever have figured this out, at some point, especially if we hadn’t have had this current conversation, presently, in the past of the future!? Probably we will have not have had! Won’t you have not have had to have agreed, by then, at some point, I know not when?

• 

  Asher

  Conversations like this make it plainly obvious why English is a stupid language haha.

  Yep, that’s pretty much it. If the speaker didn’t specify exactly, it’s because they didn’t think it was important enough to do so, or they thought it was evident already.

• 

  Vesicularorb

  What is the purpose/difference from " 明日あしたの試合しあいに勝かったとすれば、決勝けっしょうに進すすめる and just making the exact same sentence but making the original verb in ば form (勝てば）

• 

  soundjona

  Hello @Asher ,

  But how is it different than としても then ? Which if I understand also, is a way to say "Even (も) if we accept this state (として) ?

  Asking because I still don’t know how to chose which one in the reviews and keep getting errors trying to put one when bunpro expects another, and I start to feel I just have to cram and memorize by heart the hint text …