たら〜で (JLPT N1)

About たら〜で

たら〜で is an expression that appears with repeating words, and may be used either positively or negatively in order to show that 'if (A), then with (A), (B)'. It is often simply translated as 'even if (A), (B)'.
たら〜で may use either the conjunction particle たら or ば when paired with verbs or い-Adjectives, but will use なら when paired with な-Adjectives.

ニートになったらなったで大変(たいへん)だと思(おも)うよ。
Even if you become a NEET, I think it would still be tough.
明日(あした)雨(あめ)が降(ふ)れば降(ふ)ったでなんとかすればいい。
If it rains tomorrow, we can do something about it.
大(おお)きい方(ほう)が荷物(にもつ)とかいっぱい積(つ)めるけど、大(おお)きかったら大(おお)きいでデメリットがある。
The bigger the car, the more luggage it can carry, but if the car is big, there are many disadvantages.
力(ちから)がなくてもできる仕事(しごと)は沢山(たくさん)あるから、弱(よわ)ければ弱(よわ)いでいい。
There are plenty of jobs that can be done even if you are weak.
嫌(いや)なら嫌(いや)で、最初(さいしょ)っから言(い)ってくれればよかったのに。
If you didn't want to, you should've let me know beforehand.

In たら〜で constructions, it is important to remember that the nuance will change depending on the first half of the sentence. Basically, the most common interpretations are as follows.
In the good situation of (A), the problem of (B) will arise.
In the problematic situation of (A), (B) can still be done.
So in either case, it can be seen that (B) will be something that is contradictory to (A).

Caution

In this meaning, なら～で will only ever follow な-Adjectives. If you see なら〜で following another type of word, then it will be the meaning used for showing dissatisfaction, or telling people what to do.

好(す)きなら好(す)きで、はっきりと伝(つた)えなくちゃ。
If you like them, you have to tell them clearly that you like them. (This grammar point's meaning)
辞(や)めるなら辞(や)めるでいいけど、後(あと)からやっぱりやめなければよかったとかって言(い)わないでね。
If you want to quit, then go ahead and quit, but don't say later that you wish you hadn't quit after all. (The other なら～で meaning)

Examples

「結婚(けっこん)したい。」
「結婚(けっこん)したらしたで大変(たいへん)だよ。」
'I want to marry…'
'Even if you get married, it's (still) tough.'
「また子供(こども)になりたいな。」
「けど、子供(こども)になったらなったで子供(こども)なりの苦労(くろう)があるよ」
'I want to be a child again…'
'But, children have problems of their own even if you become (are) one.'
「金(かね)は沢山(たくさん)あったらあったで悩(なや)みも増(ふ)えるものだよ。」
「それはそうだけど、でも、なかったらないで困(こま)るでしょ。」
'Even if you have a lot of money, problems will also multiply.'
'That might be right, but even if you don't have any, then it's (still) troublesome.'
「もし失敗(しっぱい)したら失敗(しっぱい)したで、また最初(さいしょ)からやり直(なお)そうと思(おも)う。」
'Even if I fail, I will do it again from the beginning.'
「ったく、いつも、彼(かれ)は、雨(あめ)が降(ふ)ったら降(ふ)ったで『外(そと)に出(で)かけられない』と文句(もんく)を言(い)うし、晴(は)れたら晴(は)れたで「暑(あつ)い暑(あつ)い」と文句(もんく)を言(い)う。」
'Good grief, if it rains, he always complains that he cannot go outside, and if it's sunny he always complains that it's really hot.'
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たら〜で – Grammar Discussion

Most Recent Replies (2 in total)

Dinasaur99
I don’t know if I fully understand the Japanese logic to this grammar point.
What is the で doing gramatically?

走ったら走ったで
run-if ran-??

Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
nekoyama
The で marks a scope or topic for the following comment.

Since で is not often used in this way directly after a verb, maybe it helps to think of it as a shortcut that’s leaving out something before the で, such as ところ or 場合 or ということ. I’m not saying that that’s where this pattern comes from (I have no idea), but I think it’s similar.

Or in English:
Assuming that I run, in a situation where I ran, (…comment on what happens when I run).

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たら〜で – Grammar Discussion