Grammar Info

N1 Lesson 5: 2/17

たら〜でEven if, If

Structure

Verb［たら］(1) + Verb［た］+ で
［い］Adjective［たら］(2) + ［い］Adjective(3) + で
［な］Adjective + なら + ［な］Adjective + で

(1) Verb［ば］
(2) ［い］Adjective［ば］
(3) ［い］Adjective［た］

Details

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About たら〜で

たら〜で is an expression that appears with repeating words, and may be used either positively or negatively in order to show that 'if (A), then with (A), (B)'. It is often simply translated as 'even if (A), (B)'.

たら〜で may use either the conjunction particle たら or ば when paired with verbs or い-Adjectives, but will use なら when paired with な-Adjectives.

In たら〜で constructions, it is important to remember that the nuance will change depending on the first half of the sentence. Basically, the most common interpretations are as follows.

In the good situation of (A), the problem of (B) will arise.

In the problematic situation of (A), (B) can still be done.

So in either case, it can be seen that (B) will be something that is contradictory to (A).

Caution

In this meaning, なら～で will only ever follow な-Adjectives. If you see なら〜で following another type of word, then it will be the meaning used for showing dissatisfaction, or telling people what to do.

Examples

--:--

    「もし失敗(しっぱい)したら失敗(しっぱい)したで、また最初(さいしょ)からやり直(なお)そうと思(おも)う。」

    'Even if I fail, I will do it again from the beginning.'

    「結婚(けっこん)したい。」
    「結婚(けっこん)したらしたで大変(たいへん)だよ。」

    'I want to marry…'
    'Even if you get married, it's (still) tough.'

    「また子供(こども)になりたいな。」
    「けど、子供(こども)になったらなったで子供(こども)なりの苦労(くろう)があるよ」

    'I want to be a child again…'
    'But, children have problems of their own even if you become (are) one.'

    「金(かね)は沢山(たくさん)あったらあったで悩(なや)みも増(ふ)えるものだよ。」
    「それはそうだけど、でも、なかったらないで困(こま)るでしょ。」

    'Even if you have a lot of money, problems will also multiply.'
    'That might be right, but even if you don't have any, then it's (still) troublesome.'

    「スーパーとかで高(たか)い棚(たな)に手(て)が届(とど)けばいいんだけど、背(せ)が低(ひく)ければ低(ひく)いで、なんとかなるはずだ。」

    'Reaching high shelves in the supermarket is nice, but one should be able to reach them even if they are short.'

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      たら〜で – Grammar Discussion

      Most Recent Replies (2 in total)

      • Dinasaur99

        Dinasaur99

        I don’t know if I fully understand the Japanese logic to this grammar point.
        What is the で doing gramatically?

        走ったら走ったで
        run-if ran-??

        Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

      • nekoyama

        nekoyama

        The で marks a scope or topic for the following comment.

        Since で is not often used in this way directly after a verb, maybe it helps to think of it as a shortcut that’s leaving out something before the で, such as ところ or 場合 or ということ. I’m not saying that that’s where this pattern comes from (I have no idea), but I think it’s similar.

        Or in English:
        Assuming that I run, in a situation where I ran, (…comment on what happens when I run).

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