の中(なか)でIn, Among, Within

Most Recent Replies (11 in total)

• 

  Jake

  in
  among
  within

  Structure

  • Noun + の・中・で

  View on Bunpro

• 

  seanblue

  仕事をやめて、自然のなかに住んで見たいな。

  Why is there a sentence with のなかに as the answer when the grammar point is のなかで? This was incredibly confusing, because I felt like のなかに was right, but I answered with のなかで because I know there’s no specific grammar point for のなかに.

• 

  Ambo100

  Perhaps this should have been taught well before ‘の中で～が一番～’?

  I’m not quite sure how の中で is considered N4 whilst the other one is N5.

• 

  Pushindawood

  @Ambo100 I agree that we should have a “simpler” の中で grammar point that only covers the “among” or “out of” meaning before の中で〜が一番〜. The reason that の中で is in N4 is because it is not a set phrase and covers locations as well as objects. We will consider splitting this grammar point up and moving one version before の中で〜が一番〜. Cheers!

• 

  CrisH

  One of the sentences says that it sounds more natural without the で. Is there any background to this? I didn’t realise the で wasn’t compulsory - especially since the sentence is about where an action occurred (running in the rain).
  Thanks.

• 

  ljoekelsoey

  It’s common to drop で in single clause sentences. It is usually grammatically required in many situations, especially when there’s a secondary clause to the sentence. You can usually drop it otherwise.

  君の財布はどこ？
  カバンの中かも

• 

  mrnoone

  @CrisH @ljoekelsoey
  Hey
  This is kind of embarrassing, but the reason that 中 without で sounds more natural in that case is a bit different

  彼は雨の中走っていたから、服が濡れている。
  When we want to express that we are moving through something (using movement verbs like: 走る、飛ぶ、泳ぐ、歩く) then the area or whatever we are moving through should be marked with particle を. (This is another use of を that is not covered on bunpro)

  So the sentence actually should be (if we don’t omit the を):
  彼は雨の中を走っていたから、服が濡れている。

  In that case, particle で is not used. That’s why で didn’t sound natural, and also the reason why the sentence didn’t fit the gr...

• 

  CrisH

  So, with the original sentence, was that another example of excluding を in casual speech?

  Now that you mention it, I have been caught out on Duolingo (which, unfortunately doesn’t explain much at all about its content) by a sentence about flying through the sky. So it’s all movement through things, then? Thanks for explaining

• 

  Eironeous

  Can this be combined with verbs? Something along the lines of:

  飲み物を試した中で白ワインが一番好きでした。

  Lately I’ve been seeing Verb + 中で used as “among/out of the things I performed action on…” and I cannot find a grammar point in or outside of Bunpro supporting this use. Is it simply ungrammatical?

• 

  ljoekelsoey

  Don’t think there’s nothing wrong with this, but I think the nuance is ever so slightly different perhaps? I’m not sure if its on bunpro or not though @mrnoone ?

• 

  Tulip

  How does the use of のなかで to mean ‘in’ differ from the use of に to mean ‘in’? I assume there are differences in nuance, even if both translate to the same English word, but initial attempts at Googling aren’t yielding anything useful; they’re instead getting me comparisons between のなかで and のなかに, which, while plausibly worth learning too, don’t address my current confusion.

  For example, in the example sentence 公園のなかで子供達が遊んでいた, what difference is there in its meaning as compared with that of the as-far-as-I-can-tell-still-grammatical sentence 公園に子供達が遊んでいた?

• 

  mrnoone

  Hey @Tulip and welcome to the community forums!

  公園に子供達が遊んでいた is not correct, you should use で in this sentence.

  What you really want to know is the difference between particles に and で.

  Particle に is used with a range of verbs that indicate the existence or remaining in someplace like いる、ある、住む、隠れる、とどまる、立つ、座る.
  Location towards one moves with verbs like いく、くる、帰る.
  (There are of course other uses like indicating the indirect object of an action (give something TO SOMEONE 彼にあげる), the purpose of movement (to go SHOPPING 買い物に行く) and so on)

  で on the other hand indicates location (except the location of existence - so all the verbs I mentioned that are used with に are in certain way exceptions), therefore it covers many more verbs like 遊ぶ (子供は公園で遊んでいた）、 バイクショップで働いている、教会で歌う. (o...