のは・のがVerb nominalizer, The one who..., That which...

Most Recent Replies (19 in total)

• 

  Jake

  verb nominalizer

  Structure

  • Verb + の(は)

  [changes a verb to a noun]

  View on Bunpro

• 

  Anthropos888

  In the reading section there are many examples using のが instead of のは.

  Is there a difference bewteen those two? Should のが be added as alternative answer?

• 

  seanblue

  は versus が here is normal particle usage since the verb nominalizer is just の. So use は where you’d normally use は and use が where you’d normally use が.

• 

  airblaster

  Why is は in parentheses in the structure section? All the examples use は.

• 

  seanblue

  Because the nominalizer is simply の. It is often followed by は, but it can also be followed by が or を.

  Perhaps they should add sentences with が and を to clear this up.

• 

  mrnoone

  @airblaster , @seanblue is right and this lesson will be revamped or another will be added for more types of examples.
  の and こと simply allow verb to function as a noun, including functioning as subject, objects so all kinds of particles can follow it.

• 

  mattbacon

  I’m having trouble understanding when this would be used in English. The examples seem clunky and don’t really make sense (“that which is fun”). Could someone explain this to me?

• 

  mrnoone

  Basically, it is used when you want to use a verb like a noun. It is sometimes called “nouning”. For example some constructions (like 好き) demand a noun.
  If you want to use a verb instead, you just add の to it and voilà, you can use it.

  アニメが好きです。
  I like anime.

  アニメを見るが好きです。
  I like watch anime. (?)

  アニメを見るのが好きです。
  I like watching anime.

  There are some cases when other nominalizer (こと) is preffered, but this is another story.

• 

  twotwo

  Me too.
  I’ve just had an example sentence: “You are the one who will climb Mt. Fuji”, but in my head it was much clearer if I read it as “The Mt. Fuji climbER, is you”. It’s turning the verb “to climb” into a noun, which seems to be the purpose. I’m sure this example will break down with other sentences, but it might help you toward and understanding of the idea, hopefully.

• 

  Pushindawood

  @twotwo Thank you for your comment. I have updated the examples that nominalize verbs this way to include an extra hint (e.g. “[climber],” “[reader],” “[user],” etc.). Cheers!

• 

  Anthropos888

  Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the nominalized form of “to climb” is “climbing” and not “climber”?

• 

  twotwo

  I don’t know @Anthropos888, I’m going on the understanding that “to nominalize” means “to make a noun of”. I can think of 3 nouns that have the climb root: “climb” (that was a big climb) “climber” (I am a climber) and “climbing” (we did some arduous climbing yesterday). So I think it depends on the context of the sentence. Unless there is a much more specific definition when translating from Japanese?

• 

  nekoyama

  Yes, that’s what nominalizing means. There are many ways to nominalize verbs in both English and Japanese.

  You asked for a hint like “climber” in the sentence 富士山を登るのは君だ, but I think that’s actually the only reason the meaning is dependent on context for you. You want to translate this to something like “you’re the climber”, but this distinction only exists in that specific English translation. It’s not present in the Japanese sentence. There are ways to explicitly only say “climber” in Japanese, and this is not one of them. Likewise, in English we’re not required to be this specific either.

  In English, the focus of a sentence can be shifted by using a structure called a “cleft sentence”. In such a sentence, the focus is put on a specific part of the sentence by changing up the word order. This is what the English translations given by bunpro are doing. The Japanese text shows, among other things, how we can do the same thing in Japanese. (In Japanese the focus comes f...

• 

  twotwo

  Thank you for the clarifications nekoyama. I have to admit that detailed discussion of grammar makes my head swim, but having grown up with two languages I do appreciate that many language concepts do not translate generally.

  For what it’s worth, the interpretation was offered as a temporary detour around my own confusion - to act as a placeholder, but only until deeper understanding takes over.

  It is good to see those other examples you provide, and to learn jthat there are more explicit ways to express ‘climber’. I will be keeping this in mind, thank you.

• 

  testing

  I agree with @mattbacon that the examples have very clunky English to the point of being misleading.

  Is there a reason that e.g. 本を読むのは、楽しいです。 is not translated as “Reading books is fun.”? It seems much closer to the Japanese sentence and is actually something that you would say in English.

  (“The thing that is fun is reading books.” sounds like “the thing that is fun” is the topic of the sentence instead of “reading books”.)

• 

  Howl_UK

  Looks like they changed it to what you suggested. Which is a shame because I answered with のこと and it was wrong. EDIT: It still would have been wrong anyway as I was confusing it with Verb+こと, hah!
  If the prompt had been ‘the thing that is fun’ then I would definitely have thought of のは instead.

• 

  RealitySkewer

  The examples don’t use のが so I have a question about how it would change the translation.

  In the example:
  プールで泳およぐのは、健康けんこうにいいです。
  which translates to:
  The thing that is good for your health is swimming in a pool.

  Would changing to the のは to のが change the translation to:
  Swimming in a pool is the thing that is good for your health.

  I’m thinking that would be the case since the が would put the emphasis on the phrase that comes before it.
  Am I correct?

• 

  Daru

  Pretty much! Uses like this is what make は and が almost indistinguishable from each other at first.

  It’s worth mentioning that は would establish that プールで泳ぐ is going to be either what you’ll be comparing stuff to or the subject for the rest of the things you’ll be saying, whereas が has “shorter” range, and it’s energy or relevance in the sentence would pretty much stay in the same sentence you’ve said.

  This of course depends 100% on context, but you’d possibly need to clarify you’re still talking about プールで泳ぐ later on in this imaginary conversation.

  Hope this helps!

• 

  Glaciem52

  Can someone explain me why is のは instead of こと. I don’t understand really well the difference betweeen nominalizers
• 

  Marcus

  I’m currently watching Kimi ni Todoke: From Me to You and mining it for example sentences to add to self study here in Bunpro (sticking to N5 and easy N4 sentences). The anime is very sweet and good fun, and mining it for sentences is really helping my Japanese a lot, making me think hard about grammar, and helping me see patterns.

  Anyway, I was about to add this sentence to the の(は) grammar point, but then I started thinking about it! It seems simple enough…